The Makings of Midnight Cannoli
On the latest episode of Bluebird Broadcast’s sub-series, Tell Me About It, I had the pleasure of talking to two young artists whose work you better keep an eye out for, and the strides they are bound to make in the industry. Having recently written, produced, and brought into the world a new short film — as I had to call it, “a feast for the senses” — Maya Shoham and Max Cattana very transparently shared just what went into the making of Midnight Cannoli.
Putting together a film, in any capacity, is already a great feat. But this short has that little something extra that makes you want to dig your teeth deeper into. If you’ve been feeling called to filmmaking shorts, hear it from those who have taken the plunge, and listen to Bluebird Broadcast’s Tell Me About It episode featuring Maya Shoham and Max Cattana — and if you prefer words on a page, here’s the rundown of our chat.
MILENA: How about we just run down a little bit, who you are as people, who you are as artists, where you're calling in from — because I'm sure that's interesting to our [readers], we're all over the world!
MAX: Jump in, Shoham.
MAYA: I'm Maya Shoham, I'm talking to you from my apartment on the Upper West Side. I'm originally from Israel, I moved to New York three years ago to pursue acting. I was acting in Israel and had to stop when I was in the military for two years, but literally two weeks after my mandatory military service I found myself in New York. I met Max at Atlantic Acting School where we just worked on a bunch of projects and then we were like, “Let's do something outside of school!” and that's when this came to life.
MILENA: Atlantic Acting School seems to be a breeding ground of many-a-project, much like our own theater company, Bluebird Theatre Company. So we're fellow alums!
So that means you came to New York when you were about 20, because you had to go into the military at 18?
Image by Kyle Porter
MAYA: Yeah, my 21st birthday was the day COVID [lockdown] started, so we did a lot of our training online, so this is familiar territory for us.
MILENA: And how about you, Max?
MAX: My name Max Cattana — Maximilian Cattana if we take it to my birth name. I'm a food lover, I'm an Aussie born beach boy, I love my family, I love my friends. I feel like at this current moment I consider myself a traveler of sorts, I'm bouncing around a whole lot, but I feel very much at home here in New York. I'm Zoom-ing in from Bushwick, Brooklyn.
So, I'm an actor first and foremost, that's sort of my craft and have, since, you know, put on some other hats to put together this film with the lovely Maya, who, as she mentioned, we connected in Atlantic and developed the seeds for this story. I'm from Sydney.
MILENA: So, you two met at Atlantic and decided that you have similar a mission and combined forces to make Naughty Cow Productions, which is through which Midnight Cannoli was produced. You say on your website (because we do our research around here😉) that you're “making films that stand as question marks rather than answers” and I love that first of all, and second of all… tell us more.
MAYA: Yeah, I think for both Max and I, all the films that we both bonded over and the pieces of art that we've seen and bonded over was always stuff that just challenged what you think of what you see. I know that I don't like when a movie is force feeding me with a spoon, I like to have my own opinion from what I’m seeing and think what I'm gathering from what I am experiencing. We wanted to do the same with with our film and, I think — you tell us — but I think Midnight Cannoli does, where you're wondering what is happening for the entire time, I feel like that's a fun state to be in.
MILENA: Definitely fulfilled your mission. So you've got Midnight Cannoli in your Naughty Cow arsenal.
MAYA: Under the production company, this is our first.
MILENA: The first of many, I hope.
MAYA: Yeah, knock on wood!
MAX: We've got some projects coming up at the current moment, a series that we're developing (which I won't touch too much on just because it's in the works, so to speak) it's still operating over a very brief like working title of Project 23, in a different medium, separate to short film. We're going to look at exploring creating films for social media — TikTok, Instagram, where young audiences are today — so the evolution of Naughty Cow for the future is sort of unfolding at the current moment, always transforming. In this day and age, if Zoom has taught us anything, you can kind of make anything from anywhere, so that's what's in the works.
Max Cattana & Maya Shoham on the set of Midnight Cannoli
MILENA: Let's hone in on your recent endeavor, Midnight Cannoli. The synopsis is out there, anyone who's interested can check that out on IMDb. But, give us your own personal take on what we can take away from it. Because I personally had to watch it three times to get the three perspectives of the characters. So we've got Maya as Lily, we've got Max as Leo, and we've got your co-star Ramsden Madeus as Camille, and each of them go through their own inner/outer turmoil with temptation, but what do you want people to get from this experience from this 10-minute feast for the senses?
MAYA: I think, first of all, I want audiences to end up wanting a cannoli! Like, craving something. That when you're done from this 10 minutes you're like, I'm craving something, I think that's the take that I would love if people get from it.
MAX: Being a cannoli, or just thinking of something that you're desiring and, are you going to pursue it, are you not? Maybe take a look back at the things that you've desired in the past. It's funny it's like I'm reminded of films that I love and just moments and films, you know, whether it be the Big Kahuna Burger in Pulp Fiction, just if people come away from this film and all they can take is like, oh damn I'm like craving cheesecake or a cannoli or whatever dessert or something, desiring anything for that matter, I feel like the film's achieved what it's set out to achieve.
MILENA: What's your cannoli today? Because it is ever changing…
MAYA: Oh that's a good question, and you'll have to answer too though. Wow, I think my cannoli today is: I woke up extra early and and started baking (I also bake) and I haven't baked in my New York apartment in a really long time, so I was like, I'm craving to bake and do stuff with my hands. That's my cannoli.
MAX: I'm looking outside right now and I see this beautiful blue sky, and having been what I feel like is a bear in the winter, my cannoli right now is just getting some sun on this very pale body. For me, my cannoli today is the sunshine.
MILENA: Bask in it! My cannoli, well I'm gonna brag a little bit, and at my ripe age of ~somewhere in my 20s~ I recently got my driver's license finally, so I am just looking forward to being the fully-fledged woman that I am, and driving into that cannoli tunnel.
As for short film producing, because not only were you behind the scenes putting the puzzle pieces together, but also you were in front of the camera, and on the pages as writers as well, how do you even begin something like this? I'm sure there are so many people out there like, “oh I have this great idea, I have this vision for a story that I'd like to tell”, how do you even take the first step, and what is that first step or at least what was it for Midnight Cannoli?
MAX: We realized pretty quick what we had gotten ourselves into, I don't think Maya and I were prepared for that. We didn't want to half-ass this, so when we decided to make this film, when we realized the sort of work that would be required to write it, to produce it, to act in it, and be a part of it from start to finish — you know, we'd been a part of other film productions before, but not in that capacity — we truly didn't know the extent of what was required until we really started to sink in.
But then once the train was rolling, we built momentum and there was serious encouragement and how we were able to in those initial stages just be like, okay we've got a draft, pat ourselves on the back, now what do we do? Okay, second draft, cool.
I don't think in those stages that I was really considering way down the future when we’ll need a composer, it was really kind of, what can we control now and perhaps after doing this, maybe it is better to also have those future considerations dwelling in the background, but for us it was just like, focus on one thing at a time. Whether that be just a second draft done or, do we know a director that will jump on board? It's just one step at a time.
MAYA: It all begins with small steps and you just have to get from one to the other and I think both Max and I have that in common, we're both very straight to the point people, in the military we picked up problem solving (there's a problem, solve it, move on. One step at a time). I mean, it all started when we had this idea, we were like “Okay, we want it to be in a restaurant, we want it to be around a cannoli, wanted to be a love triangle — but that's ambiguous — let's take it from there.” So we're like, “Okay, so we need a restaurant, let me find a restaurant. Okay, we need a director, let's find a director.” And I think probably for the next project that we'll do, we'll probably want to start thinking of also the big picture stuff, but I think because this was a first time, it also had its perks of thinking and giving each step the full attention before moving on to the next one.
MILENA: And in the end you did find a director, that of Ian Aric. How did you find that connection?
MAYA: Yet another Atlantic Alum!
On the set of Midnight Cannoli
MILENA: Ah there we go, you know, the trope is you look to your left, you look to your right and these are the people you'll be working with.
MAYA: Another thing about our production company, something that we put as a target for ourselves is that we want to work with people that we think are talented and cool and fun.
We like to speak in metaphors sometimes, Max even more so than me, but we found this perfect metaphor for ourselves where we want this production company to kind of be like a dinner party. We're the hosts and we want to invite people, and cook for people, and share stuff with people, and so obviously the people that we want to invite, we want them to be cool and fun and artistic and creative, and most of the people who worked on this were friends or friends of friends. The Director of Photography, we went to high school together, we talked in Israel about how we want to make films in New York one day and then it happened.
MILENA: So it turned into a bit of a bit of a potluck in that way.
MAYA: I think that's a brilliant metaphor, like it was a one big old creative potluck.
MAX: If you really just sit down and ask yourself, “Who do I know?” I feel like often I have this feeling I'm like, ah damn if only I knew so-and-so producers and directors, then I could get the things I wanted to make made. And I feel like that is just a form of self-delusion, because we found that we do know a terrific director and we do know an incredible DOP, and they happen to also know other people… and all of a sudden you start having this little creative potluck of people that have something to bring and offer to the table.
I feel like New York's a unique place in my experience of it, you know I've heard this somewhere that no one comes to New York to have a quiet life. Everyone in New York is really trying to be the best at what they do. We were able to find those people easier than I imagined we would.
Max Cattana, Maia Shoham, and Ian Aric in rehearsal
MILENA: Things tend to go slowly if you're simply an actor, you're waiting for your your turn on set, you're repeating your lines… Given that you had your hands in every little bit of the process, how did you focus on your acting when you were in front of the camera and had every little detail of what goes into making this short film in the back of your mind? If only it was that simple, just turning those little switches off — because the Practical Aesthetics method, in a way, lends to that, of your just going for your action in that moment and playing off of what's in front of you.
MAX: Definitely with the acting as it relates to the method that we're all trained in, you can kind of tap back into the vein of what you're doing pretty quickly, that's for sure. But I remember my coverage on day two just before “lunch” (our lunch was at like 1am, it was a night shoot) as soon as they called cut it was like, okay, we're producers now, as opposed to like, let me stay in the intention of my character or whatever, so there was a lot of switching hats.
Would I do it again? Yes… but I feel like before I commit to that, I've got to be pretty sure of what I'm getting myself into.
I find for me, acting is a very physical, sensorial experience and producing is very cerebral, it's very heady. Going between those two can sometimes throw you in a bit of a spin.
MILENA: You're juggling your brain’s hemispheres!
MAYA: But there was a lot of trust there. I think it all could have happened because there was trust, and I know that if there was a scene with me and Ramsden, then I knew Max would take care of the rest, and vice versa. When we were on camera together, we were like, “Okay the only person right now is you, let's act.” Because all of this mess that we had to go through was so we can act! At the end of the day, this is my passion. All of this is to be able to act.
The moment that Ian yelled “Action!”, it was Max and I.
MILENA: And I think that really shone through the screen.
Ramsden Madeus in Midnight Cannoli
MAX: That was a really interesting moment, it was just like between different setups that Maya and I had a quick conversation, maybe we talked about character or how the scene was, and I was like, “We spent months trying to get to this point… this feels great! Me and you, now, just acting together. This was the thing that we wanted to do at the very beginning.” and we would laugh to each other being like, “We’ve spent months, and now this is our hour to do our thing”, and we kind of just like hooked in. That was a fun moment.
MILENA: How many days total did you end up spending at the restaurant?
MAYA: Two days. Two long nights. It was around 6pm to 4am.
MAX: The commute was then an hour home, so you went to bed at sunrise and had to get right back up and make sure the equipment's back on set — two long days as actors and also two long days as producers.
MILENA: So you've got it in the can, as they say, after these two days… and then what happens?
MAYA: I enjoyed pre-production. I loved the whole planning of it, I loved the production itself, of course. Then the post-production… I could not foresee how a) difficult it will be and b) how long it will be! Way longer than the pre-production and production combined, multiply it by like, six.
So much it does all fall on the color, the way that it looks, on the sound mixing. I feel like I always knew that sound mixing is important, but I couldn't understand just how important it is. We spent hours in the editing room with our incredible editor Aya. It took a really long time but it was, again, about finding people that we think are fun to work with and that can help really tie this whole thing up.
MILENA: In the end those things really tie it together with a bow and make it a fully fledged production. Kudos to your post-production team, because it was a fantastic experience to be able to watch their gorgeous work.
MAX: The amount of sheer work that's put into it and the amount of people involved in that post-production process to make it look the way that it looks—audiences have high standards nowadays and a lot of it is owed to the post-production team, they're great at what they do.
Midnight Cannoli’s Sound Expert, Joseph Nehring
MILENA: In the end you had 22-or-so people in the rolling credits, and really we only see the three of you on screen, but behind you have this full support system.
MAYA: I was very fortunate I went to an arts High School where the first two years we didn't have any performances. All we could do for the first two years of acting school was to help the productions of the years’ above us, to do lighting design or set design or costume. I remember at first being so pissed like, “but I want to be an actor!” but I think you quickly realized, and I was so fortunate to to have that lesson taught to me when I was 14. Acting is just one more part of this. Everyone has a piece of this puzzle.
MILENA: You just happened, in this production, to be holding like 17 of these pieces!
MAYA: But luckily we found all the other people that make this puzzle the full picture.
MAX: It's also part of the reason why I love this industry, because you get to work with so many different talented people who are really great at what they do, and you get to pull them together to observe one sort of vision, so that's super exciting for me. If this was all done in isolation, that for me isn't rewarding. It's really getting to connect with other artists and have everyone else contribute in their own way. We're so thankful to be able to have worked with some incredible people.
MILENA: Without being too indiscreet, the production budget was in the tens of thousands, if I'm correct? Which is fair for a production of its size. And that was mainly sourced through crowdfunding, I imagine. For people that are curious about this sort of thing — when you do not have a film yet but you have an idea — how do you really encourage people or inspire them to see the same thing that you do in this idea, and support it enough to invest in it?
MAX: You've got to be aware of the scale of the film. What do we envision for ourselves? I feel like if you're not clear on that, you can't really get clear on what you're asking from other people to contribute to it. This took months for us for me and Maya to figure out, develop, and create a campaign that was very specific. We knew that what we were asking for would cover everything (transportation, equipment, food, people, casting, all of it).
Just be be specific of the scale of the product, of the film. When you ask for peoples’ generosity, be very clear on what it's going towards so that people aren't giving their money away to an idea that isn't fully fleshed out yet. Whenever money was involved, I feel like we put a lot of consideration into what it was that we're actually asking for and making sure that was going to be allocated correctly because you can't take the generosity of others lightly.
The “best cannoli in New York City”
MAYA: The second tip would be, if you're not passionate about it no one else will be. Truly be passionate, and don't be afraid to show that you're passionate about it. I know that I'm obsessed with others people's passions even if they're not my own.
Thirdly, we got help from people that I never thought we would get help from. One of the donators was someone that I met at the restaurant I work at one night, just helped us out. Another person is Baby John who's the one who helped us with the cannolis.
MILENA: I noticed the reference from the credits, but give us the context…
MAX: Baby John… he's an incredible man, he really is. We wouldn't have this film without Baby John AKA Cannoli King. I've eaten my way through Little Italy and I can attest, best cannoli in New York City. Not only that, but he was an incredible source of generosity and energy. All the cannolis in this film are the incredible Baby John's cannolis. We had to find cannolis for this film because we couldn't afford to buy 15 cannolis that we had to be able to use and break and…
MAYA: Spoiler alert!
MAX: Through much searching to no avail we finally ended up at Baby John's place and he sat us down and just very beautifully said, “Hey, look, I want to help young filmmakers— young artists and I would love to help sponsor this film, to give as much as I can to provide the cannolis themselves and some funding”, and just in making sure that we could make this film. He's an icon, and now he's an Associate Producer. You never know how much people are willing to actually help, I was constantly humbled by people.
MILENA: You can never underestimate — even in the founding of Bluebird Theatre Company, so much unprecedented support — and it's just amazing to see how many people want to be a part of the realization of something that they see people are passionate about. There's no use in playing hard to get in your crowdfunding either, because where's that going to get you?
Are there any words of wisdom for first time filmmakers that maybe want to embark on this daunting, perhaps, process of creating a short film?
MAYA: I'll say the best advice I can give, because I realized that early on in the process, is… it's a team sport. You cannot do it on your own, it's a community. You have to bring community into this thing, and once you do, it's possible.
Don't be afraid to ask for help, because people want to help, and acknowledge that everyone is bringing their own talent, so give space to that. I'm not gonna go to the sound mixer and be like, no this is how I think it should be…
MILENA: In some cases relinquishing control’s more productive.
MAX: I echo that, that's spot on. It's a team sport. In addition to that, it's just like, shut up and do it. It's never gonna be perfect, no part of this film was I ever like, “Oh, it's perfect”. Perfectionism is not an achievable thing, having a perfect product, a perfect film, a perfect story… I don't think it exists. So you just keep transforming it through its different stages to a point where at the end of the day, it is what it is, you know? It's never gonna be perfect, so don't let that stop the the flow of it coming out and getting out into the world.
MILENA: And who was it that said perfection is the cock-block of creativity? I mean, no truer words have been told. It's never going to be perfect, but what it is going to be is real. And what it is going to be is an experience, and a meaningful touching one at that. I think that's really what we can hope for in this field, is just to have an impact. Perfection isn't going to really change anything.
MAYA: We were talking about it in our final stages of the post-production, if we keep trying to make it more and more perfect, we'll never publish it! wWe'll never share it! And I think perfection is boring. Maybe in five years we'll look back and be like, what was that? In five years we will have evolved and have created more films and more opinions on art, you know what I mean?
MAX: I’m not gonna lie, if in a year's time I look back and go, “Wow that was my Golden Goose”, I will be very upset, because I feel like you gotta keep trying to push further or transform or just venture into new ground. So it is what it is, and you look back on it fondly for what it is and hope that people resonate with it. That's all you can ask for.
To dig into Midnight Cannoli, visit https://www.midnightcannoli.com
Maya Shoham is an Israeli/Australian actress, writer, producer, baker, and wine enthusiast who currently lives in New York City. The art she aspires to do will be thought-provoking, out-of-the-ordinary, and unique. She wants to tell stories that make people feel, or think, or do. Or… all of the above. www.mayashoham.com
Max Cattana is an Actor. A blonde-haired beach boy, Max hails from Sydney's Bondi Beach. His roles in his most recent award-winning films MIDNIGHT CANNOLI (2022) & BOX BOY (2022) explore the sensitive & reckless navigation of early adulthood. He was trained at the Atlantic Theater Company & worked at the Actors Studio in New York City. https://pro.imdb.com/name/nm12465042?s=acc39a63-3e72-c99e-d6cd-34c7a1da4bee&site_preference=normal
For more about Naughty Cow Productions, visit www.naughtycowproductions.com
If you have any topics you'd like us to discuss or artists you want to hear on future Tell Me About It episodes, contact bluebirdbroadcast@bluebirdtheatre.org
